I'm afraid I might have to try this All Over Again. After all the time M2 has been out you would just think this thread would be jam packed with links, and examples? AntoniaTiger - This is the differnace I was speaking of, and I thin you're refering to. Without a huge amount of bulk that's where over trying to remove fat from your muscles gets you. The other big reason for that is like Wolf359 said, a lot of the male figures are'nt really male figures, they're female scans that've had alot of vertex movement. Personally, I do'nt like to mix my male and female mophs at all! elizabyte - Especially considering the releases of M3, David, and Don since then? Just think how much effort could have been saved if there were'nt more flops after M2's release than before? (You know Me "Grandma's Third Leg...") = )