Mark, as I said, I don't mean this as an attack. GWeb, perhaps I have taken it wrong. If so I again owe you an appologie, and here and now tender it. It just appears to me, and I believe that I'm not the only one, that all of your posts generally evolve into a slam on Eoiva and/or Carrara. I would suggest that many of us would be more receptive and sympathetic if your were a bit less negative in every thread. For one thing I see you asking about symetrical modeling. While not exactly what yo are asking for (which is a very interesting and useful tool, by the way), I work around this by modeling every thin in half, either horizontally or vertically then, once satisfied with the half model, I use "duplicate with symmetry" to copy it. In some cases I even model in quarters and duplicate both vertically and horisonatally. A bit bulkier that having a tool specific for the job but then again, many of my models become so busy that a tool tha reproduced this symmetry effect immediately on the screen could also become very distracting. Also I think, from my try with the hexagon demo that I do a technique similar using the dynamic extrusion tool and subdivison to create "organic" modeling. It's not as smooth, not as intuative but it serves my purpose for now, which is why I passed on purchasing yet another modeler. mike