Well that's true enough. You have to look at it this way though, the internet as we know it now is still based on 20+ year old technologies and code. To make it more secure they really need to design something new from the ground up. Problems with that though are compatibility issues and money. So here we are today putting bandaids on 20 year old wounds and complaining that they aren't stopping the blood flow. We both agree, Hackers are stupid. I guess our differences are our understandings of english phraseology. Sometimes it sounds to me when I read your writings that you were taking sides that you weren't meaning to. In anycase, it all breaks down to Cath's original statement in posting. Some people are just pigs. ;) Hackers and script kiddies piss us off, break our website toys and make us unhappy. I think we can all agree with that.