dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!