'I think 32 products show i have mended my ways' I think so too, and it's good to see you come in here and explain your point of view. There's nothing worse than a merchant who's afraid to face the customers. But you bring up an important point. A lot of products with !!! folders may actually be older products made long before people started complaining about this. Let's not forget that at one time, this was all the rage - started by DAZ, curse them! (And I'm a DAZ broker). So sometimes it's worth finding out if the merchant does this as a general rule, or if it's a once-off, before sending off e-mails to them. Check a few other products and see if they all do it. mac