wow cool tips many things i haven't tried! just when i get okay at the cloth room everything goes haywire again. now i have been working on modifying cloth in max and trying out the meshes in poser. i've managed to keep the cloth from self intersecting ( i run collision with the ground...as far as i have seen this stage will tell if it is self intersecting by blowing out the sim count or just not running at all) but i am having problems applying the cloth to the character and the sim running for more than like 10 frames before it blows out the count is it advisable to restart poser everytime? should you always delete the simulations and start over instead of just recalculating?