all good words. yes i am cheating and draping everything from a looser fit to a tighter one. i sort of don't know what i will attempt next so i just start running. so lets say we're gonna do shorts and a dress. (and of course nothing fits right) we want the dress to drape over the shorts. so i will have to set up the shorts first, save the obj, quit. then do the dress...but i will need to inflate the keester a bit so that the dress will fit over the shorts when draped. save and quit again. then load the saved dress onto the shorts sim and run again. i believe i have a process. by the way i have p6 but did not get along with it too well, i use p5. might just use p6 to render if i can figure out all that stuff.