After reading all the comments in this thread I find there are good points all the way around. I can speak only for myself, so here goes. What constitutes art is subjective. We all have our own criteria. What I consider art, you may not. I never cared for Picasso, or Dali. But I love Van Gogh. Go Figure. I always personally felt that Picasso should have taken a course in Human anatomy, and that Dali must have been friends with Timothy Leary. Just my personal opinion. I have been using apophysis for almost a year, prior to finding it last December, I had been using Fractal Explorer for 2 1/2 years. I love fractals and flames. I think that in general flames are softer, more ethereal, more delicate than fractal images are. There are artists here who can make scenes from just flames, or flames and fractals combined. One young man made an amazing composition that contained over 50 flames! Fault me if you will, but I call that 'art'. To say that 'if you have seen 100 flames you have seen them all', is in my opinion saying that once you have seen 100 paintings of roses by various artists you have seen them all. No two artists are alike. I never view flames as being just like someone elses, because they aren't. Each person who creates an image imbues that image with a part of themself, their spirit, if you will. A uniqueness that no one else has. I feel the same way about fractals too. It doesn't matter what tools, or programs one uses, be it Bryce, Vue, Ultra Fractal, XenoDream, Apophysis, Visions of Chaos,or Photography, it doesn't matter. The creativity is what I look for. What I consider art? When an image reaches into you and squeezes your heart, evokes emotions that you might not particularly want to feel, when you are so touched by the beauty of the image you cry, when someone has the ability to evoke a response that helps you to grow as a person, to consider and think, to blindfold your prejudices, so to speak; That is art! My 'art' is an outlet for me. I lived the first 17 years of my life in a domestic 'war-zone'. I have PTSD, depression, anxiety attacks, panic attacks, Social Anxiety Disorder, and I could go on. But I won't bore you with the facts. When I create images, I am outwardly focused. It is how I maintain a balance in my life. It is an expression of who I am, and what I feel. Sometimes it is joyful, sometimes not. It is communicating on a non-verbal level. It isn't really hard to grasp. Personally I find it arrogant that if we move a transform it isn't art, but if you add a layer, it is! Hmm I have to wonder if the artists who painted roses felt that those who painted daisies, weren't artists? Food for thought. Thanks for your time Leanndra