Well, it seems that poser hair meshes are popping up everywhere around the Sims 2 community and I was wondering...a question for the merchants...would you let someone buy your product and go through the process of making it available as a mesh to be downloaded and used in the game? I'm not asking as a sims 2 creator...but rather as a "get a list of who would and would not" in case their meshes pop up somewhere.... I mean think about it...they paid you for the mesh, then took the obj file and "converted" it for The Sims 2...where then it's available not as an obj file but as a game specific .package file for the game on their website for free...what are your personal thoughts on this? Donna

"I mean think about it...they paid you for the mesh," Not neccessarily. It would all depend on the EULA or "read me" that came with the object. Most of them prohibit the use you're suggesting a.f.a.i.k. You're not actually "buying" the mesh, you're licensing it in most cases, which is very different.

That's true...hmmm...well, would this type of mesh distribution be considered different? Upon speaking to a different poser hair mesh creator, he says that this would be somewhat different than just redistibuting the obj file...which anyone could rig and add textures to, thus eliminating their need to buy the product...he said that since the mesh would be incorporated for the game under a different file type, it'd be almost impossible to get it back to the original obj with the uv coordinates intact. Also, as an add-on for my first message, I meant that they would be distibuting the .package file with full credit to you for the original mesh and possibly a link of your choosing either to your site or online store... :D Donna

Some merchants sell Sim's items. I saw some at Poser Pros. The topic of Sims .... mostly the stealing of textures and meshes etc, has come up several times in Copyright, and apparently in the merchant's forum on several occasions.

It's not just hair. Any mesh package sims 2 can handle can be replaced with poser-developers objects.

Obj files created for poser can be reduced using milkshape if they are too high poly for sims 2. Then imported into sims 2 package files using free utilities.

That reduced obj CAN be extracted out of sims 2 again by someone who never had the original.

The reduced obj will retain original uvmapping if the reduction app used does it correctly. I know milkshape does. Therefore the textures also can be imported into sims 2 - at reduced res if needed.

So yes, sharing poser objects with other sims users is against the standard product license here at renderosity, poserpros and daz, and probably all of the poser stores. You have to get permission from the creator OR pay for a special redistribution license to allow redistribution.

Poser merchants are aware of this and trying to work out a solution. We have a new forum at
http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=95

Sims content developers are willing to work with us to do it properly - with permission or paid licenses. Those who are not doing it properly will be contacted.

Donna, can you please tell us the sites where our models are "popping up everywhere around the Sims 2 community"

I will post a heads up in the copyright forum here.

Thanks :)

Message edited on: 10/31/2005 22:22

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April's dead on. After 4 years of paying attention to such stuff, I can't think of any single poser place that is selling anything where that use is considered acceptable under the terms of the EULA's in force. Furthermore, even if the mesh is converted, it is still being redistributed, which violates every EULA in force at present as well (the converted mesh, be it in obj, c4d, purple haze, or whatever -- even x format -- is still derivative, and the same method that is used to convert it can be used to return it to the format delivered, in, making it extractable under the current terms of law for the EULA's at present). Pretty much, unless written authorization exists specifically form individual merchants pertaining specifically to that mesh/texture/other item, they are violating the terms of the agreement under which they use it.

Hello! My name is Katherine. I just open a new forum, where all interested people in poser to sims conversion can ask questions and post their opinions. I am interested to buy obj files from poser creators and convert them for sims, but if it's not possible, I can help you to understand how you can do it alone and sell them. Hope to see you there. Hugs, Katherine http://www.sepultura.info/forum/nfphpbb P.S. You must register first and I'll give you access to forum. Please use the same user names you have here or at poser pros. So I can know that you are really poser creator and not someone else. My forum is private and all discussion is only betwin me and poser community, and I want it to stay in the same way.

People have been putting Poser things in the Sims1 and Sims2 for ages. It seems that any hairstyle made for poser works it's way into the Sims. The process of Poser to Sims1 was pretty easy. I don't know how the process to Sims2 works. I think you have to use SimsPE or Body Studio, or something like that. The irony for me is, there is a hair object that was made for sims2 that I want to take into Poser! It's so cute! I've tried contacting every person I can think of about it, but the original creator seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth. *pout* Poser needs CatBoy Hair! ;D

Using hair in sims without permission is theft even if the hair was free to begin with. Poser figures can`t be used in games so hair and props are no different.

xantor, actually using poser stuff in sims or games isn't theft - it's when you pass them onto your buddies or sell them on that it's against the standard license for the poser stuff. For example, I buy Victoria3 so I personally have the right to use her in poser, in bryce, in vue, in sims, in games, etc, for my own use. I do NOT have the right to sell Victoria3 or give her away for other people to use in poser, bryce, vue, sims games, etc. Bast, if the catboy hair is sims2, you can export the obj and then import it into poser. You export the obj using SimPE from http://sims.ambertation.de/ Here's a tutorial how to export the obj... parts of it are not relevant as you only want the obj. http://forums.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=43092&page=1&pp=25

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License often grants usage for animation and renders. It is often okay to create add-on items or textures for a product - always a good idea to contact the author first if in doubt. Creating a low-poly version to use in a game is derivative. Also taking that dervative and putting it into a game where others could potentially cache copies of that item is redistribution, whether or not the intent is there. I don't know if the sims2 handles it that way (by caching copies) or if it's multiplayer only. In a standalone game it may be a bit different but it's still questionable. Using the logic of poly-reducing the object and reshaping the UVs is okay... So if I bought this person's hair model, reduced the polygons to the point where all the coordinates had moved then put it up in freestuff, that's okay? I don't think so. If I didn't have the hair in the first place, I couldn't have done this as I derived my new hair from the original. It would have probably taken me less time to model something from scratch than to find a bunch of loopholes to work around in trying to distribute something made by someone else. I find this to often be the case.

Awwwww, that "cat boy" hair look exactly like the haircut that Inuyasha wears ! Me loves Inuyasha !! Gotta have it for Poser !!! Me wants a haircut for DoggieBoy !!!! Ahem. Is this some kind of add-on for Sims2 ? Is this downloadable somewhere, so I could convert it to .obj by myself for my private use ? BastBlack, any info, please, please, pwetty pwease ?

Hmm...very interesting replies..hmm...I'll PM you April.

You can download CompulsiveD's Catboy Hair here:
(You may need to register with ModtheSims2 first)

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=61298

I don't own Sim2, it won't run on my machine, you need a DVD player for the CDs.

April, thanks for the tip on how to extract the obj. I don't think SimsPe works without having the Sims2 installed, I tried. :(

If anyone reading this thread can extract the Catboy head, I would be very grateful.

If someone (like April?), actually wants to make a Poser quailty Catboy Hair for M3 and Hiro, I will be doing the Happy Dance for weeks!!!

wink wink
hint hint ;)

bB

Message edited on: 11/01/2005 17:42

Message edited on: 11/01/2005 17:43

When I pointed this out back in the Sims1 period, no one seemed upset. Because Sims1 used sprites for furniture, not actual meshes, and the obj files for the heads were so lo res that they couldn't be used in Poser and look anything like the original. But yes, it's happening a lot. As for allowing it... I've only made two hair props in my entire Poser career, both freebies. If someone contacted me for permission first and assured it wouldn't end up on a pay site, I would have no problem. Were it a product, not a freebie, I would require them to purchase a special liscense at a reasonable price giving them permission to distribute a MUCH lower res version.

SimPE won't run on my machine either, it requires DiectX 9 to work with meshes and I have still ver.8 installed (ver 9 killed my brother's GamesFactory, we had to re-install whole system ^^;). And if it won't run without Sims2 installed either, well, that's the end of the story. Maybe someone is interested in doing freebie, not-to-high-poly, not-too-fancy-textured freebie "Cat Boy" hairdo from the scratch ? .

Bast, if my memory serves, there IS a CD version of Sims2. My local Wal-Mart didn't have the DVD version, so I grabbed that instead. Best advice is to look at the boxes to make sure. Don't give up, it's a fun game! So far, I've not seen any for-sale hair meshes converted, just free meshes. (Mostly Studio Maya and Kozaburo...)

I searched for the cat boy hair and it seems to be based on the "InuYasha" cartoon character hair. For some reason CompulsiveD took it out of downloads. I think it would be pretty easy to simulate with existing poser hairs and just add some cat ear props? Mix and match, don't limit yourself to one prop ;) Surely someone's done a poser hair shaped like that already! I actually found some shorter hair with cat ears last night after seeing post 9 (cos I thought I had seen it around poser before) but I couldn't find it again today! As for unavailability of SimPE for various reasons... well sims community would like to utilise poser-developed content, it's only a matter of time it goes both ways :) and legally, obviously. I don't think the sims community is as ridden with warez as it may seem. I've been looking around the last few weeks and don't find any obvious infringements. (They really need to post their permission notice to convert the freebies.) From the volume of content they have, the occasional case will come up, but not really more than the percentage in the poser market? And fixed similarly (report item, let site admin deal with it.) I think they're mainly due to ignorance, not intent to rip others off. Plus the sims site owners are aware of "rip offs" and I believe they are educating their members. You don't stay long as a legitimate online business if you allow warez to go unchecked afterall. I'm rambling so I'll cut it there. :)

Taking an obj file and "converting" it into another file type (for The Sims 2) is a copyright infringement based on the copyright holder having all rights to derivated works. The only exception would be if the creator has a license that allows derivated works, or you get written permission from them. Jenifer Carey (previously Keeling) Renderosity Admin & Copyright Agent

Hmmm..., maybe the Windows version comes in CD. These are the system requirements for a Mac from the Aspyr Media website:

Operating System: Mac OS X 10.3.8 or later

CPU Processor: PowerPC G4/G5

CPU Speed: 1.2GHz or faster

Memory: 256 MB or higher

Hard Disk Space: 3GB free disk space

Video Card (ATI): Radeon 9000 or better

Video Card (NVidia): GeForce FX5200 or better

Video Memory (VRam): 32 MB or higher

Media Required: DVD Drive

I have Sims1 with all the add-ons and many downloaded goodies too. What's fun about it from Poser point of view, is these virtual people may be low res, but they move on their own and do their own thing. Poser figures are boring in that regard. And it's wild too that people are making movies, and moving storyboard with Sims2 people! It's fast, cheap, and easy. Poser will never be like that.

I have tried various things to make own 'Yasha hair. Styles I've tried are: Wild and Messy, Asty, Shag, and CC combined with Silky Long Hair, Grace Lion Hair, Loki Hair, Bliss Vision Hair, Screen Legend Hair, Celestical Hair, Lotus Hair, Manga Hair, Hiro Hair, etc. But nothing really works as well as I would like.

I have never made hair, but maybe I should try.

Attached is one of my combination hairs for Inu. Can you spot the hairstyles I used? There are 2 main ones.

The Sims2 Catboy hair no longer exists by itself, but is included with an entire outfit. It's on the link I provided, just scroll down the blue box with the download zip file.

bB

Message edited on: 11/02/2005 13:43

. Nice job ! I do not recognise any hairdo though, since I do not own any of the items mentioned.

Sapphire Fox hair and ... Hmm. Looks good. :)

Nope. But good eye. I used Quarker's Silky Long Hair and Wild and Messy Hair by Anton. Ears are Mill Dog. You can see a bigger version of the picture here: http://www.deviantart.com/view/9011643

bB

Message edited on: 11/02/2005 19:14

Still haven't got back to myself after seeing your renders... Site added to favourites :)

He looks lovely, BB. You managed to catch his sweeter, more innocent side with that picture, which is my favorite side of Inuyasha. (Of course, my personal favorite is Miroku. Something about a letch that never succeeds is very amusing.)

Thanks. :) Hey, guess who finally figured out how to export from Sims2 to obj? hint hint ;) Thanks for the tips, gang. I had to download several things like DDS, Milkshape export plugin, but i got it done. Don't have the texture map, but I'll be reworking the whole thing anyway. Villan, I sent you a PM. bB

hi there :) I would have to say that my feelings get a little hurt when I see my hair being used without permission...I have only ever been asked permission once (and I gave it) :( I really do not agree at all with someone converting and then selling meshes wether it be for sims games or to make their own products or whatever but it seems to me that it happens all the time and especially with hair products!!!