Ghostofmacbeth, I think I bigin to see what you are saying "My creatures and aliens also have it as part of the INJection deltas", so if I understand you correctly, you are implimenting the position of the eyes via a morph, not via translation channels. I see that that would not be affected by a normal joint pose. Did you also reset the origin (joint center) of the eyes in the INJ, was that necessary? When I was saying that poses would be likly to reset the position of the eyes I was specificly thinking of ExprssnImg's code in post #15, which addresses rotate and translate channels. I have never considdered moving the eyes with a morph because I beleved as Bob said in post #3 that "In any case, moving the eyes with a morph would leave the joint centres in place, meaning that they wouldn't swivel properly". I would be interested to know if you found this a problem, and if so how you overcame it.