'my free D|S downloads get just as many hits as the Poser ones & I know I have many regular customers who don't even own Poser' Yep, I have a large DS customer base. I make poser and DS versions of each product now, and sales have rocketed in the last 6 months. My gripe with P4/PP is not so much about material nodes as the fact that they can't use .mt5 files. At the moment, P5/6 and daz studio can all use single materials which apply to any surface, without the need to have everything smart-propped. For my products, that's a huge advantage. But P4/PP can't use these files, and it's a total pain. I'd like to blame CL for hanging on to an outdated app just to make a few extra bucks, but I suppose from a business POV, it makes sense for them to squeeze every cent they can from their old software. It just makes life hell for everybody else, is all. mac