This is in response to a lot of posts so please forgive the length etc. Tastiger .... That is a good example but from what I can see it is also wrong. Please don't take offense :) That is what I mentioned with the inverted images for the bump map. Right now, when rendered, the beard would sink into the face, the eyebrows would as well. At least from how I am interepreting the node set up. You would also need another map (the beard) which is what you are trying to avoid. So you are saving on space a tiny bit because it isn't the full bump but not overly much. The same for the makeup option since you would need another one for brown eyeshadow, another for gold etc. The way to do that would be as a grayscale image that is seperate for eyeshadow and seperate for blush and seperate for lipstick etc. You could then control the color overlay. It also shouldn't be tagged into the bump node unless those area sink into the skin. It is good work but I just take the bump map ver seriously and have always hated jut making it grayscale and calling it a bump map. That isn't how it works. Moles aren't huge craters in the skin, eyebrows don't go in, etc ... And that is what you normally get when you convert something over. And, to me, that node setup for the makeup is a lot more labor, time, and hair pulling than than the photoshop option. Especially when you do all of the other node setups. And you aren't cutting out just the P4/PP users, you are cutting out everyone that doesn't render in P5/P6 ... No vue, no Bryce, no CD4 etc ... Though some of them might be able to grab some of the information from the various map overlays. They would be out of luck with the other types of node setups unless they can replicate it or do it on their own. This is still a map based system though, just one that has more bells and whistles. Other people have been saying that is too much and you should do it all with math nodes, etc and you just don't get convincing results that way. At least for people. I am not saying that they don't need node work, but I am saying that they do need textures. Everything else is bells and whistles. Textures are universal and they can be set up in P4/PP/P5 etc ... and what you do on top of that is all fine and good. But basically nothing "has" to be P6 only ... it can just look a lot prettier in there. I personally use P6 a lot now but I really like it when I go into P4 because the whole setup is a lot faster. It doesn't do as much but it is soooo much faster. I do release all of my new stuff with P4/PP/P5/P6 mats and files and I use displacement, node work, etc. so don't get me wrong. I do see the benefits of it and have adapted. I also see the benefits of P4 files being included. It is also a lot easier to do stuff in P4 but that isn't possible to do just that anymore. cobaltdream How would spider shader do partial shaders? I haven't messed with it that much except for adding the settings to the body materials but how would it be good for tattoos and makeup? Can you save just that part of a setting? Actually, the displacement isn't for V3 but it works fine for her or any of the unimesh. At least that aspect of it. But yes, and I do support it. Some things are just a pain is all I was saying :) But as you said, the merchants can still sell a dumbed down P4 version as long as it isn't pure nodes. Gonna start a new part to this post ....