Hi sorry about the delay just got back to the PC I have been trying to get my head around the use of lights with caustic and thanks to your help its dropping into place. I have been experimenting by saving the one of the quad spots from the "Caustic" image by Michael Janssen and tweaking it to see how this affects the look. I started by turning of the volumetric and lens flare. Then changing the size of the Gel which seems to do the trick. I have lots more experimenting to do with Meshmagic which makes fantastic patterns for postwork and will get a slot on Thursday to play with them more ;-) Thanks to Bruno021 & Veritas777 for your help Regards Keith