I think bwtr might be correct...will try that. Louis....I tried the Beta of Veloute 2 & it crashed :( Got an error saying the grid was more recent. The guy who makes these said there were 2 betas released within 5 days of each other...so they are fubared. That's OK, I can wait....in regard to C5P. Also, I don't see a download for C5P on his page...just C5. The download for C5 had ALL the plugins from the vendor in it.(Beta) Could you point me to the correct place :) Thanks