Probably a day or so? Not sure, because I decided this one was a keeper, and ended up backing up to the first subdivision. I've gotten into the habit of keeping 3 versions of the file, so I have an anubis (unsubdivided) an aunubissub1 (subdivided once) and anubissub2 (the one above). The musculature was done just by pinching it at elbow and wrist, and then letting the second subdivision do the work. In other words, I got lucky. Anyway, I think I'm going to play with this one a while, and see if I can't bring it all the way into poser (reading over various tutorials). Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. It really increased the fun/frustration ratio! --Terri