"The only thing that bugs me is we never hear from any of e-on people in any discussions but instead its those who as Dale say is just another weanie like all of us. To me that is poor representation for e-on and Vue. :)" While that is a good point, do you have ANY idea how many 3D sites/communities are out there? Any software company would need an army of people perusing the web to get to them all - and yes, I realize RR is one of the big ones, but they just don't have the time. PurpleCloud - you're in a small community theaterhouse, screaming to all the volunteer actors about the manufacturer of the LIGHTS. You're not even in a Broadway Theaterhouse - just a little side one. If you have an actual beef, call the manufacturer - or email them. I had a problem with Vue, email e-on tech support, got a pretty quick response, and my problem was in their next patch which fixed it. I'm sure I wasn't alone as I don't imagine a software company would add something to a patch for just 1 message, but it was nice for the feedback. Email them, call them, whatever - you're wasting your time trashing a software in any RR forum - or any forum outside of one the actual company's site. And people WILL leave the forums if all that's in there are people trashing the app when someone has a question about how to do something. If the response is something like, "You can't do that function because the app and its updates are useless - but if you switch to THIS app it works great!" they won't tend to return... Go figure... Final story, then I'm going to stop following this thread: A few years ago, my friends and I went out to a diner for lunch. There was a group of guys 3 booths away having a heated political debate - they got up to YELLING their opinions about federal funding and "tax breaks for the rich." We realized that not only had WE stopped all conversation to listen, so had most everyone else. Yes, people most often do that as was pointed out above - it's like train wreck - you don't wanna look, but you can't stop yourself from looking. The manager asked them to lower their voices, as we could all tell if they got beligerent with her they would have been asked to leave, so they quieted down but kept the debate going. THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING IN A DINER!!! They can scream and pound the table and get as passionate as they want, but there will be NO CHANGE IN THE POLITICS THEY ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT. Write your local Congressman (or in this case e-on) and stop yelling at regular people in public, because WE can't change anything. That's all DaleB is trying to get across - he's not the defender or e-on, but someone looking at ANY software objectively. They've got bugs - fact'o'life. That's why there's a "testing" phase - to catch them and fix the ones they catch - and they don't catch them all. That's why EVERY company releases patches and updates - you never noticed that? They get feedback from their users about problems, and TRY TO FIX THEM. But if you only give feedback to US nothing will be solved. THAT is the problem Agiel (and I'm sure others) is trying to cut off in the forums. We complain to each other, not the manufacturers, and the forums are being used less and less about learning the software, and the exchange of creative ideas. Go create art with WHATEVER app pleases you. Good luck all- -Lew ;-)