HA HA! I appreciate the help people, I got it. I am still so green that that tut you pointed me to is terrifying.I will be studying it but... YIKES. But I am nothing if not tenacious. What I ended up doing was creating a bone out of the chest that attached no geometry to it and then attached the bones for the wings to it and that seems to have worked like a charm... Again thanks for all the help. Just to let you guys know what it is I have been working on, I discovered a 3DS of the characters form the sonic the hedgehog games, and thought they would make excellent models for my own use! I wish I could upload them... :( But now I have Rouge the Bat... lots of problems still with arms and I need to add her tail but I am happy so far! Again THANKS TONS! DC