Here we go again. Tony, thanks for giving me the opportunity to jump back on my soapbox First, let's define art. It's pretty much anything that anyone thinks that it is, so anything that anyone creates is art, therefore everything that everyone creates is art and everyone who creates it is an artist. Therefore all flames are art and everyone who creates them are artists. Now that's out of the way. From there it's a matter of personal preference. I have said all of this before but I'll say it again. I love flames, but I am bored with most of them. Because of all of this talk of flames, I have just spent a few hours digging around in apo b, searching for the lost flame. I found a few interesting ones, but for the most part it was all I could do to stay awake. That's just me. I am more concerned about the big picture. If we look objectively at what MattyYeboah said in the other thread, we can see that he made a very good point. It isn't that all flames are crap, it's that our art is becoming stagnant. It's hard to see that though, because every day we tell each other how great we are. Don't get me wrong. I am not asking for anything here to change. I have become a believer in the community and the encouragement that if offers. All I am offering is my own personal experience on the impact that this environment can have on the way that we look at ourselves and our art. There's nothing wrong with feeling good about ourselves or what we do, but it's important to keep a good perspective. I think that good perspective is found in this quote from Joshua Spies: "Always listen to constructive criticism, never get high on yourself or your art, and never, ever quit!" What do we do about the stagnation? I don't know, but I do know that there is more to our art form than flames. They are just one tool in the tool box. Some folks are happy with wrenches, others like screwdrivers, but this art form needs every tool and then some. I love this art form. I spend a tremendous amount of time on it. I want it to get to the point where the average person on the street will recognize it as art. That person doesn't care that it came from some amazing script, that apo is easy to use or that it is a labor of love. They only see what is in front of them. The final product is all that matters. If that breakthrough to the average person happens with standalone flames, that's cool, but I doubt that it will. In the mean time, if it makes you happy, keep using your screwdriver. Keith