Thanks, Tim - you've just expressed the other side of me that constantly argues with the side that wrote the LONG thing above. Yes, though we sometimes begin with something that just "happens", it is the artistic "sense" we have that recognises that beginning and then proceeds to develop a vision and enhances/exploits that beginning until it meets up adequately with the picture that has burst into our mind's eye once we've had that inspiration sparked. Be it UF, XD, Apo or whatever. Being a musician myself, I can grok your comparison between a classical and jazz musician. Being blessed I, suspect, with perfect pitch I've always played guitar by ear and by "feel". I've transferred that ability to "feel" to the piano and instead of taking lessons I - slacker that I am! - write or "make up" my own compositions/songs. As with fractals, I just dork around til something sparks my interest and then immerse myself in the "completion" of that vision. The trick is to then go thru some of the steps Dirk describes to finish that vision once it has occurred. I think if we keep going here, we might just be able to finally explain/define just exactly what it is we do to realize our artworks - maybe even to an extent that will "satisfy" the artists who think that fractals are merely the plotting "by a computer" of pseudo-random mathemetic algorithms. To some extent we, as Keith (luv ya too, man - you're my hero :-) said, "find cool shapes and then color them" (sic - too lazy to scroll up for the exact wording....but then in the time it took to type this I could have....motor-mouth again! lol) but it's not that simple. It takes a certain amount of skill to direct the computer in the proper direction to "find" that shape and then a LOT of skill and artistry to recognise and then take that shape and realise the vision that it inspired in us. There's no denying that it takes a LOT of time, skill and practice to get fractal software to go in even the approximate direction we intend. Many of us have put in time comparable to the amount of time to hone our skills that an oil painter would put in to get "good" at what they do. And, as with any other type of "art", the end result is something that strikes a chord deep within the human psyche the says "ooooooooh, pretty!". Rick