lol Winter pressed dead tree, I love it! Grab BL Render's book well worth it. And as far as what mick just said ditto. If you downloaded it and got the pdf manual you might want to print out just what you are working on so you can write your note on it. That's what I did with the older pdf's they had out. Also hit the Daz site, they have some pretty nice tutorials as well as runtimedna. Marque