As a note: While there's plenty of opportunity here for political discussion of the pros and cons of various policies regarding nudityin any form, it's the site's policy not to allow them. Other than not wanting the thread locked and to disappear, I dinnae care :) lol. I've been around lng enough to know what will generally fly and won't, and prefer to let the discussions continue without getting into a sort of user fight with the mods that's a no win sitch anywho -- all exclusive of the fact that the subject at hand is a website run by a very small group of folks and owned by two who happen to have sentiments not unlike those expressed already politically speaking. On to momodot's questions, with a small sidebar... Sidebar: good pull on the "think" not "feel". Most responses to this are emotional, not rational, thus far. Should there be a relationship? Well, as a writer, from my perspective, its inescapable. People will always associate a fictional image with a real one if they have any connection to it -- it's that association that creates that connection. What maks it difficult for a lot of people is that there is a sort of underlying expectation based on the commonality of the human condition and culture surrounding the individual that their peers are going to have a similar association and connection, when the truth is that in a world of 6 billion people who are generally highly mobile and come from several thousand potential cultural, sub-cultural, and local norm and mores structures its far more probable that they won't. In an environment such as this one, which is considerably more global in membership than the average small town, this is going to be exaggerated by various social forces, including the commonly found separation between artist and society (historically, artists are usually held to be outside asociety, both by their own acts and the acts of the societies they tend to portray in various forms and expressions). So, to me, the question is irrelevant. As something that cannot help but exist, particularly in the mind of someone who isn't part of the subcultural strata that this place belongs who is visiting and making comparisons to their own experiences in order to make sense of it, it's going to be present no matter what, simply as an extension of the fact that these things are representations of humans. What could make a figure a toon figure, yet clearly not an issue in terms of child nudity? Nothing. Be it from inexperience, lack of skill, worldview, or just plain orneriness, someone will always percieve something to be young, if they want to do so. A wrinkled old wizend figure, small, with grey hair? Why, that could be a child afflicted with that aging disease if the person's experience and interprestation so allows. There are staruday morning cartoons where the characters are drawn looking 10 or 12 to me, but they are supposed to be teens. And others where the teen looking figures are supposed to be 10 or 12. It's too dependent onthe indidviual's perceptions, and therefore subject to the vagaries of such. I still chuckle over the people who watched LOTR and asked why it was that a bunch of kids were entrusted with the ring. This also addresses your corollary, "Are there toons that are clearly ove the age of seventeen?". Again, a personal thing. I happen to find the Lina to be a bit young looking, for example, but as for anime doll, the koshini folks, and similar figures, I'm just as agahst as the next person that theycan be readily concieved of as being underage. On the other hand, I'm sensitive to the fact that while "anime" may be mainstream for us, for the bulk of the american public (and, since RO is governed by american laws, they do tend to have more say in the matter) they are not -- and that the majority of that same public tends to underestimate the age of most asian folks by five to ten years on average (whereas they overestimate the age of most black folks by three to five on average*). * University of Tucson Sociology review, 2001 In my personal opinion, the questions to be asking are: 1 - Where can I make images for store products like that? 2 - Where can I get store products that are not going to be updated (for example, Wyrmmaster, who is overseas in the military and unable to address this issue for an indeterminate amount of time)? 3 - Do I really want to hang at this site anymore, or should it just be a place I visit? 4 - How long until this affects the galleries if it really is about marketshare (since they'll never make it off the lists as long as those images are still in the gallery -- and likely not even then). 5 - Why does ynsaen have to be so damned long winded all the time. Stupid girl always goes on and on and on and on. Sheesh...

thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)