ooooh, i LOVE that, Simon!!! Your final result is gorgeous, but i must admit i ADORE the B/W (#2) the way it is!!! what you're doing...yeah...i do that a lot now...layer the color and b/w to achieve a look with desaturated colors. i do like it a lot!!! Thanks so much for showing what you did!!!! and thanks for clarifying what doug said. You're absolutely right. sorry...i'm still sick and taking medicine that's making me a bit loopy...well, loopier than my normal loopy self! LOL! :) In generrral, i love my BW images to have a LOT of contrast. well...i'll play some more. i guess ya'all will see what i decide on when i post it in my gallery!!! that final desaturated one you did is growing on me Simon. :) thank ye! :)