Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=43217

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 08:43

Incidentally, despite the readme saying to turn IK off, turning on IK on with PoseMagic can actually give better results. Let's go back to the Crouch example. Crouching the figure in PoseMagic with IK off gives the result seen in the first pic - the feet are pointing downwards and are situated below ground. But crouching the figure in PoseMagic with IK on the figure's feet bend very slightly upwards (this is very easily fixed) and the heel of the foot stays on the ground.

Finally, I'd like to take a look at bending from the waste. Sorry I've no pics for this but I'm doing this from a computing lab. Using the bend-at-waist dial in negative values causes the figure's feet to move forwards and off the ground. Using the dial in positive values cause the figure's feet to move backwards and slightly below the ground. So again, extra dialwork is required to get the figure to 'bow' - despite this product promising a 'one-dial' solution.

Do you really consider your broken leg on the second picture to be better than the more natural looking pose on picture 1?

Why do you think 'the' leg is broken, and which one?. And taking the PoseMagic result and adjusting like I'd described produces the same end-result.

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 09:39

Just try to pose yourself that way. Especially the left foot...

It's very easy. The feet are staying flat on the ground whilst you lower your hip (keeping your back straight), thus causing your knees to bend. You try it - I bet you can do it. Incidentally, since you think that the first pic looks very natural, does that extent to having feet inside the ground? But criticising my Poser skills beside the point. The point being that PoseMagic's results can be achieved via simple use of IK.

Sorry, me heel will leave the ground, because the join isn't made for this kind of extreme action...
You're showing poses that are very trivial, unfinished or broken and don't allow any judgement. But if you can pose with IK only, then that's really great and i'm happy to not be your puppet :-)

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 10:08

Well, Dizzi, I could have bent the toes as well and moved the heel off the ground, but I deliberately made the poses quick and simple so that other people could duplicate my efforts within Poser. And the point remains: PoseMagic is not a one-dial solution for various described movements, and those movements seem to be easily duplicated without PoseMagic.

Are you saying that I can put away my plastic on this one, and just use what I have?

That's what seems to be the case, unless anyone can show otherwise. I've sent a PM to the creator as well, in case he/she would like to respond.

No, PoseMagic is there to help in posing. And it's good at that. You don't have to switch between bodyparts all the time. That the feet will move below ground is quite right, because beding the leg and moving the hip both at a constant rate obviously will lead to that, when the feet should be on earth then the crouch is "complete", as in the picture.

Well, there's more than this one line you complain about on the product description, which make it worthwhile.

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 11:35

Do you get to chose what body parts are represented on the one panel? Having the translation dials from a handful of key bodyparts on one panel, and thus not have to switch between bodyparts....that feature alone is significant. Or...do the native translation dials not appear at all, and it is only the "combo" dials that show up on the PoseMagic panel? ::::: Opera :::::

posing can be quite a headache and lesson in frustration, if you're not very practiced at it...if a resource such as Pose Magic could get you nearly all the way there, with just a bit of tweaking required, rather than having to start from scratch and having body parts twisting and turning in unnatural positions, then Pose Magic would be well worth the money...I'm okay at posing from scratch, but I'll tell you, the amount of hair pulling, growling and starting over that goes with that is only for those who are stubborn as the day is long or verrrrry patient...if I had the money to spare, I would likely purchase such a program so I could enjoy Poser more and swear less...hehehe ;P Karen ps: Zulu, maybe the fairest thing to do would have been to contact William the Bloody first with your concerns to see if there was a satisfactory solution to your issues...I feel bad for him that you chose not to do so and give him the opportunity to respond to you privately first instead of having to defend his product to the whole community... :(

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 11:59

Zulu, some dials are not, intuitively, meant to be used in negative values, first of all. I could probably add a reverse bend at waist but I haven't thought of it and nobody has asked me for it. Regarding IK, I guess it's a matter of taste. I personally am a member of the "IKSA" (Inverse Kinematics Sucks Army). It would seem the vast majority of Poser Users hate IK, and don't wish to use it. The BothArmsUpDown parameter has a little too much collar in the mix, and as a result I've made a BothArmsUpDown2 dial for Update 1 with less Collar. Have you gotten the update yet? Check your downloads for the update. PoseMagic is a growing product, it is being added to by me every day, I have no intention of resting on my laurels. For anyone who is reading this thread who has not experienced PoseMagic for themselves, I'd like to say a few things: Zulu has only posted 2 parameters as examples to slam the product. The primary purpose of the product is NOT being represented here. The purpose being that all body posing dials are on one parameter list, you don't have to do endless mousing around to pose a figure. The "OneTouch" dials (crouch and Bend at Waist being the only ones) are sort of a novelty. Spin it, see if you like what it does for your pose, if not, proceed to finer controls. Finally, Zulu, if you really aren't getting anything out of the product, please contact the store for a refund and I will authorize it. -WTB

good answer will

Count me in as another one that hates IK.

IK might help out with animation -- but for purposes of static posing, it's a royal pain. I turn it off 98% of the time.

I like IK to quickly get things "into the ballpark." However, once they're there I turn it off and finess things using the dials. What I'd love to see for animation purposes is something that would allow me to only display the attributes I choose on the timeline. Once I've got a head or foot scaled, or face shaped (for example) I rarely animate that attribute. Once I conform clothing to a figure I rarely animate it seperately. However, on the timeline I have to scroll way up and down, bypassing all sorts of attributes that I'm not going to change, to get to the things I'm animating. That's a pain in the backside. It sound's like something like this product - where you display just what you want to work with - would be awesome for animators if it could be applied to the timeline.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2522746

Bobasaur - I've been tinkering with animation a great deal, and let me tell you how PoseMagic helps a bit in giving you exactly what you're asking for. In the an. Pal. timeline Pose Magic is one entry that contains everything you're going to use to pose the figure. You can minimize your scrolling in anpal this way, by working only with the posemagic parameters. With update 1 and expressions added, I find I never have to go anywhere else in anpal. Since anpal auto-scrolls to whatever you're working on, scrolling is a minimum. Of course, PoseMagic won't hide the other stuff, I think that would be something to ask for for Poser 7. -WTB

I'll check into it. I understand zulu's point in these very simple examples, but I also understand what it's like trying to manipulate several elements at a time. The ability to move multiple elements at once (e.g. both arms) would clearly save a bunch of time. Too often have I played the "switch back and forth between a bunch of elements and then apply symmetry so that both hands are on the sterring wheel (or whatever)" game. I assume I can double click the PoseMagic entry and access all it's parameters in the Graph Editor? And also is there any kind of fall-off (for example when I have a character turn their head I may rotate the head 15 degrees on it's Y-axis and then the neck only 5 degrees - does PoseMagic rotate them both equally or at different degrees of magnitutde)? And finally, have you got any animations uploaded anywhere (i love seeing what others are doing)?

As a merchant I have to do a load of promo images. The ease of taking a pose and tweaking it to suit my purpose is done very quickly and easily with PoseMagic. It is a huge time saver to have those dials all in font of you rather than having to go to each body part separately. If you don't like the outcomome of the tweak it is really easy to change it. cheerio lululee

You can. If you double click PoseMagic the pull-down menu in the graph editor has all of the PoseMagic Parameters listed. However, you cannot read their full names so that's sort of useless. You'd really have to double click on the parameter dials names in anpal instead to access their graphs. To work with the head and neck, there are many options. First, you have: HeadNeck Furl/Sway/Twist which apply equally to both. This provides a pretty nice result but if you want to fine tune this you then move to the individual head and neck section which has the same options for each. I thought about adding more dials to include a MoreThis/LessThat sort of option, but since there are infinite tastes and infinite possibilities, it's just not practical. As for my animations, I am constantly just in experimental mode. Can I do this? Can I do that? I don't keep them, at least not yet. I'm still learning how to work with it all. -WTB

Cool. This is looking real good. And I have a gift certificate waiting to be used at the RMP... Hey, wait a minute. Are you sure this thread isn't just a clever advertising ploy? [big friendly teasing grin] If you need any animation help, don't hesitate to ask either here or in the Animation Forum. Or via IM. ;-)

Well, you know what they say, there's no such thing as bad press :D I've been coming along nicely with the animating, what I'm really trying to master now is making characters natural. My tendency is to try to cram a lot of motion into 3 seconds.

I was unaware of this product until I read this thread so William, you're right - there is no such thing as bad press :) What I would like to know, are there presently any free or for sale poses created from and obviously for this program? Thanks! :)

Irish, hmmm...I imagine there will be! I don't think any exist for downloading yet. When/if they are, they won't be distinguishable from poses created the old-fashioned way, so it will be hard to tell if they were created from PoseMagic unless the author states so in their readme, which they are under no obligation to do. There was an indirect challenge put out in the thread linked above to try to match Firebirdz! fantastic poses using PoseMagic. I'm about to demonstrate that it can be done in that thread, where you can see the results there (among some other results already posted) -WTB

The thing I have studied and applied recently that helps me make movement more natural is overshoot. I've gotten to where I can tell from the graph if the overshoot is too much, too little, timed right, etc. Overshoot rocks. ::::: Opera :::::

psssst

@ WTB -

Hey, buddy......for a 15% cut, I'll start up another thread about how absolutely awful PoseMagic is.......you can come back at me in the thread by being reasonable......I'll respond to you by ranting and raving.....

........I figure that a thread like that should be worth at least a couple of hundred sales to you........

So.....15% of the take ought to be about right for my services.

;)

lol Remind me of that offer in a couple of weeks ;)

I will, I will...... In the meantime, I'll be using your product. ;)

William, this is what I am confused about and I have a gift certificate just waiting to be used on your product, but when I read this in your promo info on your package "Share PoseMagic poses with friends, sell PoseMagic pose packages for others with the system." That says to me that if I made poses either for free or for sale, the user would also have to have your program in order to use the poses? In your answer to my inquiry, you have confused me even more by saying if someone used your PM package, you would not be able to tell unless they mentioned in their poses that it was used. Hope you understand what I am getting at here as I may not be explaining it very well. Thanks again! :)

As a purely dispassionate customer I can certainly state that this product is not just glorified (or inferior) IK! Although the tecnology may not be this, it seems to me that what it does is provide a reasonably universal Easi-pose like function to Poser humanoid figures. William has seemly programmed in anatomically proportionate movement patterns across two or more joint sets to enable easier and anatomically plausible posing. I think the leap of brilliance is creating a system that allows all this to be accessed from a single set of nested parameter dials that can be applied over multiple figure types. It's a simple idea but often the best ones are! As a content developer/ merchant I'm jealous_because I think it results from a good lateral thinking brain and I wish William great success with it. I wouldn't mind betting that you'll find this type of function in the next version of Poser and/or D/S. Of course the programme won't produce Firebirdz quality poses (get real folks!) but it is a great way of starting before the fine tweaking begins!

Irish, since that promo material was written, Dizzi has invented a small java utility to covert PoseMagic poses into normal poses, so the text in the promo no longer applies. The utility is free while in Beta but it works flawlessly. Dizzi has plans to eventually put it in the marketplace when it is finished for a small fee. So, as long as you eventually buy Dizzi's utility you can begin production of your PosePacks for market or freestuff immediately with PoseMagic. Hope that clears it up -WTB And PS regarding Noggin's last post.... You CAN absolutely create Firebirdz quality poses with PoseMagic. See the PoseMagic Diary thread linked above.

PoserMagic is about two things. Majorly improved work flow and the beautiful compound dials such as the shoulder/collar action and sway trunk. It is worth it absolutely for these two features. Then for me there is the whole issue of how much easier to use it is then the conventional set-up given my motor impairment. I Do turn IK on and off as I work... though mostly off. This thing rocks.

Hey, this kind of "controversy" message thread is a great way to get commercial advertising back into the main Poser forum where it belongs (and I really DO mean that).

I'm off to buy PoseMagic right now!

(I've been eyeing it for a few days - watching the REAL commercial thread in the Product Showcase forum).

-jjsemp

P.S. anybody feel like getting pissed-off and outraged about my new Poser-created book, Sherlock Whippet?

www.sherlockwhippet.com

Message edited on: 01/05/2006 16:25

I heard Lance Armstrong really finds the title of book offensive. And your TV ad with Paris Hilton in a skimpy outfit reading the book while eating a Carl's Jr. hamburger raised quite a ruckus with some family decency watch-DOG groups. I can't see why anyone would read it. [is that good enough, or do you want me to taunt you a second time?]

P.S. anybody feel like getting pissed-off and outraged about my new Poser-created book, Sherlock Whippet?

My offer to WTB stands for you, too. Simply agree to give me a 15% cut of the total take, and I'll start a nasty thread about your book right here in the Poser forum.

Results pretty much guaranteed. Your sales figures should triple or quadruple overnight.

PoseMagic is not IK. I've struggled enough with posing characters to know when I see a good thing that's going to make my life easier. The major breakthroughs in posing started with IK and ERC. Then over a year ago a python script caught my eye, PoseGenie. It worked by using a "target" and "seeker." Then it ran through all the caluations to find one that would require the least about of dial spins to place the seeker where you wanted it, the target. I was never able to use it because it was PC only. Me still pouting about not being able to use PoseGenie and reading about people on the forums who wanted to to use BVH pose animations on Apollo, the clever Kamichle came to the rescue with the brillant pose translation python scripts for both Humanoid figures and Animals! PuppetMaster BiPed and QuadPed. So now you can exactly translate V3 hand poses to SP or Aiko, import your old Dork animation poses and use them on Daz Gecko! LOL! You can even do sick things like using the Eagle shoot animation on non-bird creatures. Have your Unicorn shoot and fall from the sky. Plus, I really like the "distubute pose" feature which will smooth tail poses, no matter if the orignal pose had only 3 tail segments, PM:BiPed will male that tail smooth. =D Now there's a kickass easy posing helper, PoseMagic. It's great! I love it! This is a way better way to create poses. You can move much faster in setting up a pose. It works on a Mac, works in P4, and is infact, very simple, and very fast. It makes you wonder why no one thought it before, in fact. To make truely realistic poses WILL take time, effort, and talent, but PoseMagic speeds up that process by at least half, and also allows for more experimentation. Pose Magic will also work with poses already in your library. Dizzi is making a helper app that will translate hybrid PoseMagic/PZ2 pose into one clean PZ2. I wouldn't be surprised if both PoseMagic and PuppetMaster became the new standards for posing apps. bB

Despite my severe agitation about the book, I will admit that the illustrations look very good. Whippet good. Shape it up. Get straight. Go forward. Move ahead. Tattoo detective, It's not too late. To Whippet, Whippet good. I'm sorry. I don't know what's gotton into me. Well I've been working in a coal mine going downtown and I'm through being cool. Please stop me before I throw in any more obscure Devo references. I can't get no satisfaction AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH! Stop! Stop! Stop Me! must ignore the voices in my head.....

So, WtB... At the MOMENT you can't save the poses made with it, but you can once Dizzi releases the java app? Is that correct? I do poses. Sometimes. For sale. And this could very well be what I need. But of course I need to be able to save those poses :o) So can you please elaborate? :o) I just got a gift certificate the other day and it's burning a hole in my pocket LOL

ernyoka, the utility is already available in beta, and it works just fine. Anyone can go download it and as long as it's in beta, it's free and you can use it for commercial application so long as you agree to purchase the utility once it is sold. I understand Dizzi plans to keep it in the 5-10 range. And you CAN save the poses you make with it without the utility but without the utility what you save are actually props, and you just do a prop-swap when you want to recall a pose. -WTB

OK.. where's the beta? Prop-swap.. seems like I'll have to buy it to see what that means LOL

Attached Link: http://neocron.lunarpages.com/alforum/index.php?topic=31.msg164#msg164

Trekgirl, I may not be able to explain it right, but PoseMagic is sort of like ERC prop you attach to any humanoid figure. It works independant to actual pose dials on a figure. So you have "layers" of pose. You can save the PoseMagic pose as a prop into the props gallery, or convert it into a Pz2 with Dizzi's app. If you combined Figure pose settings with the PoseMagic pose setting, you have use Dizzi's app to merge the two "layers" of the pose. Make sense? Both the PoseMagic2Pose app (or PM2P) and PoseMagic work on a Mac, PP and P6. PM2P needs only Java 1.4.1 to run on a Mac OS X2 and up. Windows people can download Java for free from the Java website. bB

Hmm.. I don't understand the technical bits, but as long as it works. I guess that's what the ball is doing in the first pics here, then. I was wondering about that. So.. Where can you get dizzi's program? beta or not :o) And I'm on a PC. With java installed.

ernyoka, look about 2 entries up on this thread for the link to the beta. -WTB

Heh.. seems I need glasses AND that PoseMagic thing :o) Thanks!