It's such a shame that this discussion even has to take place. I remember when I found Apophysis. I was so excited. I had always loved that type of art, but I didn't know that there was a program out there that actually allowed you to create your own. I am very new to fractals. I just found out about them 3 months ago. Where have I been you might ask? Busy with life and raising four kids. Not a lot of time to get on the computer to search for anything new. I found it by accident when I was looking up a scifi sitcom (Threshold) and it lead me to Electric Sheep. Is it art? I think so. But I like this kind of stuff. My son is an art student in DC. He saw some of my work and had a different view of it, which he politely apologized for although I said that it was alright. They teach the students to think about their art and that each picture must have a meaning that they should try to project in the picture. These, he said, didn't do that so he doesn't consider it art. Each picture I do I have enjoyed doing. If there is someone out there who enjoys looking at them, then that makes me very happy. I do this because it is fun and I love this kind of medium, the computer. I have seen many flames which experienced Apo artists have done. They are beautiful. I strive to perfect my art to be as good, but I know that I am just beginning. Give me an honest opinion. I cannot get better if I do not get suggestions of what I can do to improve the image. I cannot get better if I simply hear that it is good although it does do a lot for ones self confidence. If it has been done before, let me do it and learn, but show me where it has been done before and what I can do to change it to make it a memorable image. If it is bad, don't simply say that it sucks, tell me why you think it is bad. Is the gamma to high? Is the lighting wrong? Is it to dark? Should I have panned into the image at a certain point? Will it hurt my feelings, probably, no-one wants to hear that they stuff isn't good. But that will only last for a short while and then I'll step back to hear the constructive things you have to say, pull up the image and attempt to fix it. I'm joined Renderosity to see what other artist can do with the program. I'm here to meet talented artist and to get any helpful advice I can get. I have downloaded many tutorials in Apo and script writing in the hopes of getting better. Hopefully, in time, I can be as accomplished as many of you. Thanks for listening. Lisa :)