well garry ive tried worldbuilder, 3dmax and vue and none of them has given me the satisfaction that bryce gives. Off lately all my images have taken 1 hour to do, and thats after 500+ images and a LOT of postwork that i had to learn. I do think some people expect a lot from Bryce and they forget that it still a $99 3d program. Im just learning cienam4d and the render engine is "instant" (no kiding!), specially with a dual core baby. But bryce is just more fun and 100 easier to use and thats the atraction for me still. alex,