bagginsbill, a couple of questions.... 1) in post 37, you say it is the original from post 1, but "modified a little". Is the arrangement in post 1 still your latest and greatest, or are you posting the definitive final somewhere else? 2) some models have many groups. is it necessary/good to apply the full material to all groups, like eyelash, pupil, toenails, etc.,? 3) if applying this shader tree to all/many groups, is there a hit on render time? 4) i use face_off's shaders, and there are several settings he has that I would not want to be without. a) "oiliness" b) skin highlight strength c) granite displacement/bump strength and a few others if one where to build the tree in post1 here, and save as a material, and then apply it to many parts of a model, I can't see where the gain would be. Everytime you needed to tweak, wouldn't you have to open the tree on every body part (group) and change settings on various shaders? In other words, how is this tree practical without a universal "top-level friendly" setting controller? I am not dissing your work here, only seeing how it would be practical in production. Thank you ::::: Opera :::::