"i didn't think hybrid clothing was a secret. english bob has a hybrid freebie, and i assumed jim burton's peignoir was going to product." its not :) what one chooses to do with it might be, i suppose. i feel like an idiot for having avoided the cloth room so long. i used to think it was too clunky and a waste of time, but really you can set up a dynamic cloth render in less time than it would take to adjust a bunch of fitting morphs, JCMs, yank around body handles, etc, and the resulting clothing is far more natural. i think with all of my upcoming clothing i am only going to be supporting poser 5+. i know some people are clinging on to poser 4 - i was one of them - but its really time to give it up. once you get used to them, the materials, renderer, cloth room, etc are very big improvements. having to package for 4 different types of poser - one of which (poser4) required an entirely separate section in the readme, totally different MAT poses for everything (gets to be a chore when you have like 60 mats), etc was also getting to be a little too much. with the coming of poser7 that would have been 6 applications we had to test in, in addition to two platforms. "Sounds like Gabe has a real good idea, here." its not my idea, at all. i just pay attention - a lot of material has been posted here and at poserpros by jimb, englishbob and even the OP. cheers, -gabriel