Hi :) thanks for the input. so I can asume I can also use bitmaps for tress bushes and so on. I dled the demo. having a problem with it crashing intermitantly saying vue created an instrution fault in unkown module. got to admit this is one I have not seen befor. any ideas ? system 98 Se 256 megs ram 750 mhz AMD Duron 60 gigs ide hd ati all in one 128 pro laters Vel