Keith, that is the first lucid explanation of the base element I have read. Thank you. I have "tilted" the base for things like noses but I dislike how that throws of the translations, z becomes y and then I am all mixed up. I am buying a new machine and I am very anxious to see if the video card will co-operate with Blacksmith since my current machine won't run it. billisfree, if you have ProPack or later check freestuff here for ockham's python scripts, MagCloner for symmetry, DeleteDeformer or DeleteMag for getting rid of magnets from a dialog box, Mag2Morph for saving deformations to morphs.