some poser users are so accustomed to vickie's bad joints that they don't even notice them anymore, otherwise the person who created the image in message 1 would have done at least some minimal postwork in photoshop or PSP. when larry weinberg wrote poser, his original intent was that it be used as a virtual artist's mannequin, meaning the artist must actually know what an human looks like, but just uses a crude mannequin to set up the rough pose. which is why some will say that Poser 1, 2, or even 3 are "useless", meaning they require the presence between chair and keyboard of an artist who has studied human anatomy. unfortunately, poser users have lost sight of this, and now it's come full circle. one actually needs to leave one's computer once in a while, go outside and spend time with actual humans, so one can become re-acquainted with human anatomy. instead of using poser as a virtual mannequin device to create drawings or paintings, one now has to use human models as references for poser renders.