ok, then, let's give this possibility a try... and then I'm going to bed!! This is only theory, but it might hold to work well enough. Take your obj, and do the glow thing, in whichever fashion you choose - probelight, ambient, combination, whatever. Take another copy of the obj, and scale it up slightly, so that your original 'lights' are skinned, as it were. (memo to self - this might prove tricky if you scale up the entire sign, as you get scale drift - can you scale up each letter in turn in Carrara, and export as a second obj?) now, we need this second skin to give us the atmospheric glow. It probably won't extend out far beyond the original, but it should give us enough to work. In the skin's diffuse and transparency channels, we need some kind of atmospheric noise plugged in - noise, perhaps, or fbm, or clouds - whatever would make a good 'atmoshpere material' if you were trying to create one normally without the atmosphere material itself (I think relik over at Runtime DNA could suggest a couple of things for this). If we then plug in the gather node to whichever channel we want (alt diffuse is always my favourite, but YMMV), then the dust clouds generated by the diff/trans procedural should catcher the glow of the original light object, whilst still allowing us to see the scene beyond. It all depends, of course, on how dense you make the dust cloud. Please bear in mind that I just wrote this without Poser in front of me, off the top of my head, on my way to bed after a long day of looking after my teething 15-month-old daughter. I make no promises as to the workability of this scheme... but the theory does seem sound to me at the moment. hope this helps. jonthecelt Do you think that