well, that routine you just described probably contributes to faster renders in Max, also. On the hair movement, I am now of the "use a full can of hair spray, but then back it off a little until the hair just moves enough to trigger realism" school. I started with my discovered setting of .02 for 'position force' but then eased it off to .015. Flicker. Not my friend flicer. I'm rendering the section near the end where the flicker is bad on the cheek, with somewhat kicked-up settings. Will report back tomorrow. :: og ::