yes, there was some subtle hair movement which worked. Greg, I'm going to be keeping my animations indoors for a while, but then they are going outside to play. I'll be all over that HDRI/dome stuff when the time comes. Looking forward to it. [[he says as he returns to the mysteries of deep shadows]] I'm starting to believe there is very little true flicker in the animation. There is no shadow shake unless hair is moving. More later. ::::: Opera :::::