Did it, thanks for the suggestion. I am enthusiastic about two things: 1) anastasis20 posted some great HDRI images of Miki which confirm my belief that Carrara will be an terrific tool for outdoor close-in realism. 2) anastasis20 in the same gallery post has an indoor image derived from a ring of spots. When next I attack Carrara as a tool for my genre of render, that's where I am going to start; it's a fine image. ::::: Opera :::::