Poser won't be running with that crowd. I recently had an hour-long conversation with someone deep in the 3D world here in Los Angeles, and he stated that Poser is used for pre-vis, in commercials, for story-boarding, etc., but that no pro would ever credit it or even admit it...it's not considered a correct tool. No problem. The app is barely out of the hobby incubator. When compared with Joe's system, I wouldn't even attempt to describe it as "a powerful tool." I just know I am getting results, which can be seen in posts 24 and 56 above. I thought you had some sort of actual factual comparison, because of your sentence "From what I can see, Poser's hair system is nowhere near...". ::::: Opera :::::