Mocap....roflmao I was thrown out of the hash group twice in one day for asking how to get around a bug in the program. I bought it because I think it's a good program but you are right, rather than admit to problems they trash other programs. Debra makes some pretty cool critters with Hash, but she's the only one I've seen that appears to be happy with it. C4D is cool, and Lightwave. TygerCub, you ought to look into getting the lower end version of Cinema 4D, looks like it could be good as an entry program for you. I'm presently learning Lightwave with a smattering of C4D. I would not recommend Hash to anyone who doesn't have extra money and a h**l of a lot of patience. So much to learn, so little time! 8^) Marque