Personally, Im not THAT much in photorealism because right now it still comes with a big tradeoff in render and tweaking-times. Maybe if I had second machine that would just do the rendering. But I want to DO STUFF in Poser, not sit and watch it render for hours. LOL. So far my typical renders take 20sec AT MOST. Besides, photorealism has to be 100% perfect, because nothing is worse than a broken illusion. If I can spot even the slightest "error", it ruins the whole pic for me, regardless of its other qualities. Photorealism either "Is" or it "Isnt", there is no in between. hats why "Final Fantasy" was a failure, and "Shrek" a big success. So unless Poser becomes so perfect that I can create CONVINCING photorealistic renders without hours of tweaking and render-times I can count in minutes and not hours, thats just not a goal I want to invest time in. And I actually DO like the "semi-realistic" style one gets from the P4 renderer. Its more idealized than a photograph, but yet more detailed than a hand drawn illustration. BTW, in real fashion/beauty/portrait photography people usually spend hours to edit out all those little imperfections like shadows, wrinkles and skin blemishes the "photorealistics" usually rave about. ;-) stahlratte