Sorry...I meant "Indirect", I was just too lazy to see what exact word Carrara uses to mean that. I love that last render. I have found, in using GI (which I use in almost all of my renders now -- particularly Indirect -- ) that with photon counts much below 4,000 nasty blotches show up on large surface that are predominently lit by reflected light. I think that one-hour render beats Poser's mark for realism. Perhaps, tho, we should save on render times and see what kind of shortcuts we can come up with for glamour instead?