from the non-technical point of view, I consider a joint bad when it breaks the mesh or severely distorts it in an unnatural way when you rotate or translate to any position with "set limits on" Now, it is possible to move an arm or collar, for instance, to an un natural position with "set limits on" so really, it depends on eyeing normal bending. There is another issue: if the bones distort the mesh in an un natural way when the bones are at normal standing position! The most infamous case for that is the inward-curving upper arm, and the shoulder pads that are seen on all unimesh and on Jessie. It is still there on James, but less so. The defaul Apollo has the shoulder pads, but you can dial them away, unlike on other models. Bobasaur, I think bad joints are any that make the cage look unnatural at rest, alow movement that looks unnatural, or break the mesh. ::::: Opera :::::