Cool, Bill! No, I don't think anyone really minds if this is OT--after all, it's apps such as XFrog which can specifically apply to us Vue-ers for their ability to create the things we definitely need MORE of, namely, trees. Also, I've been aware for some time now that it's abilities go well beyond simle tree creation, and you show that off here pretty well! Also, I remember Gail's crab, and I thought it was pretty neat. Thanks for the tip about the contest--- it's a little late for me, but I juswt downloaded the newest 3.21 demo, so I guess I'll give it a shot, or at least learn some more about it. In actuality, I've had my eye on XFrog for some time now, ever since Orio introduced it to me. By the way, it was actually Orio who first made me aware of Vue d'Esprit. :) So, I'll probably get XFrog eventually. I'm not really put off by all the numerical entries, because Vue has alot of the same sort of thing going on, and, well, once you get used to such a thing, I suppose it can only lead to better precision and control. :)