You can find spirals in the Mandelbrot and the Julia formulas just using the default formula parameters. The zoom feature and the gradient are really important in defining the spiral. Try this. Open up a new fractal using the "Mandelbrot (Built-in)" formula in the "Standard" file. Use the "Standard" gradient file. Now go to the "Outside" tab and open Toby's "Doodads II" file. So far, you are just using default parameters. The first thing I do is go to the "Outside" tab and start changing the "color density" and "transfer function." With the default Mandelbrot parameters, the "Standard" gradient file, and the default Doodads II parameters, it works pretty well to change the "color density" to 16 and the "transfer function" to "CubeRoot." Open the gradient file and try moving the colors around using the sliding tab at the bottom of that file. You will start to see shapes around the edges of the Mandelbrot figure. For example, there's one that's almost on the center/top of the black figure. Zoom in on it. See the beginnings of a spiral? You can find them in any location around the rim of the Mandelbrot figure. Now you'll have to start playing with the gradient file to focus more on the spiral - to make a distinct edge between it and the background (if that's the effect you are looking for). Then start playing with the different parameters in the Doodads II formula. Send me your email address and I'll send you some more info and some starting points. It takes a little practice, but once you've found the first one, you'll probably find that you can't NOT find spirals! LOL! It took me awhile, too. I finally begged Paul Carlson to show me how to find them. When I finally did find one, I was surprised at how easy it was! Happy fractaling! Linda