Bonni-- I'm not sure what you mean by "realistic." And I certainly don't think that "all there is" in Caravaggio is "realism." Hence my last comment. What I mean by "realistic" is the sense that this is what I would have seen if I had been there. Not that my eye would have "found" in the fruit (which were, according to M, intended to be as close to obscene as 'real' fruit could get) what Caravaggio found, but that what he found in some sense was there, rather than something he added. (And not that I sniff politely at the notion that artists "add" things. I like finders and adders equally. It's fakers I find add nothing.) All art is "not real," ultimately, in that it represents something else. (I'm not convinced that even the most modern, abstract art ever just 'is.') When we use the word "realism" about art, we mean it is like real things, so the word is already relative: How much is it like them? Caravaggio approaches photorealism and his contemporaries usually do not. He is not the best of them because he is more "realistic," except that, well, part of what makes him "best" is that sense that here, finally, are real people in real houses suffering real pain and joy. The ultimate adder appears to just find. As for the "apples," my point was that when we talk about "realistic," we are always selecting elements to discuss. I find Rodin's gouged surfaces just as "realistic" as the luminous males Michelangelo sculpted, but lots of folks would say, "You WHAT?". And some would agree with me. When photography rolled in, folks considered it not "art" because it was too real. But the "reality" was just another way of representing, and not a very good one at first. What is "real" about holding still for three minutes so someone can expose a glass plate adequetely? And now the regularity of digital blotches is considered less "real" than the irregularity of halide blotches in photos, even though both are just representations of the "real." It comes down to the idea that art is regular, reality irregular, but that is just one more theology. Thorny concept, much snagging of clothes. M