Thanks for that link I See Eric wengers still uses his "Baby"(BRYCE) for creating awsome art also glad to artmatic is not an orphaned program Speaking of wenger did you know he still owns the rights to over 90 % of Bryces source code? even the Corel version I wish he and UI software would just takeback bryce and develop it to its true potential it could easily be as powerful as lightwave especially if he added character animation I still use the Final Metacreations version 4.12 of Bryce I dont trust Corel in fact I HATE them but i will take a look at Bryce5 when it ships