OK, since some damn bot emailed me about a response to this neverending thread, I'm back in here, and I'm gonna say a few words. First off, cut the Nazi stuff... my roots trace back to that War, and unless youve watched your parents, grandparents, friends, and relatives bawl their eyes out at Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List (among other related movies), then shut up. And if you do fall into the same boat as I do, then youre smart enough not to talk about it in the first place. I really dont care who started it. I dont care how innocently it was used. But I will tell you this: when you go to Germany (and I've visited, my brother lived there), if you put your index finger horizontally across right above your upper lip (resembling Hitler's mustache), people will either: get a very somber look in remembering the tragedy that members of their country caused. Or they will deem you disrespectful and ignorant for doing such a thing, or even give you a $#!+ kicking. I personally will just deem you all ignorant and disrespectful. And maybe just give you the $#!+ kicking anyway. Second, dont bother with that IP trace BS. Any idiot can get around it. Third, as a former warez phreak (and PJF, this ones for you, my man! :-), I knew exactly how to get the software. Hell, I still do. Whether it be direct from a source inside one or more manufacturers, a store (EB, CompUSA, etc etc etc), a unknowing friend, from an acquaintance's workplace, or whatever else you could think up. I could get it. I have thousands (buried somewhere) in (at the time) hard-to-obtain software. Sure, most of it is out of date, or that I will never use it. I install to see that it works, then uninstall, deeming it another victory. 9 times out of 10, piratez dont get them because they need them, its because they want to say that they did it. That they found some rare find. If I wanted to, I could have sold to someone at discount the software they wanted, getting a few spending bucks for what my internet connection got for me as i slept, and leave them forever wondering how I was able to get it in the first place. The concept of 'trophys' is fairly similar with some hackers. They dont deem hacking a fellow High School geek rival's web site worthy. They dont even think its enough to spend more than 30 seconds mentioning it. They want the real scores. The ones you'd read about in the papers. Microsoft, Yahoo!, Disney, NASA, etc. The more popular the site, the bigger the thrill. So, getting back to the warez issue, I did a little test. I went to a more public area (one that every one of you could use if you found it; and no, its not hard to find) for file distribution, and did a search for Poser. A number of hits came up, but less than you'd think. Now, I then piggybacked a search string on top of 'Poser'. These searches queries I entered included the following: Creative Labs, Creative, Lab, MetaCreation, MetaCreations, Meta, Creation, Zygote, Zygotes, DAZ3D, DAZ3Ds, Victoria, Victorias, Vicky, Vickys, Micheal, Micheals, Eve, Eves, Mill, Millenium, Man, Woman, character, characters, Clothing, Fantasy, Pro, Pack, MapPak, Hair, Morph, update, map, texture, textures, template, templates, pose, poses, CD, ISO I found zero hits. I'll repeat that for the slow readers. ZERO. The fact is, piratez aren't after every single plug-in and add-on imaginable unless they actually take interest in the program. And since most dont, they have no idea about the different characters there are for Poser (ie Victoria, Michael), what company it's created by, or what the hell a bump map is. Now granted, if you happen to be more 'skilled' in finding programs, you wouldn't need the file transfer net discussed above. But for the average user, half of them have a hard enough time logging onto their unreliable dial-up account, let alone them making it as far as a specific web address, FTP server, or newsgroup. Only to find out that their connection will time out before they get 3% into the download, or theyve overrun their monthly time alotment, making it cheaper to buy the program rather than pay the excessive ISP (Internet Service Provider) charges. So I formally said it: I told from the untold side. The side that most here are afraid to speak from. The side that 98% of you at this site detest, dispise, and wish the digital execution of. I honestly respect all of your opinions, no matter what I personally think of them. I'll never say who's right, and who's wrong. Even though you already have. ..->[ aMP-3 ]<-..