Thanks for the links Spike, yes I did use a little of each, my problem is I have a very short attention span. I'll start to read a tutorial and then I say, yeah yeah, I got it, let me start working on it, only to find I get stuck again. Someone once said that the average American will only read what they can during one bathroom visit. Ah, but I digress... Thanks again, Leee (not implying that your tutorial was too long)