originalkitten, i read your posts and found them somewhat unclear. i also want to step back from the confrontational tone the discussion took then, in order to find out just how you define your terms -- i believe it's not possible to have a fruitful discussion if the terms are unclear. the really interesting stuff happens in boundary conditions anyway. ok, so you do not think virtual nudity per se hurts anyone. does that include nudity of virtual children and teenagers? two little maddies splashing around in a bathtub, would that be ok to render? a group of young lauras and lukes skinny dipping on the first warm day of summer, is that ok? a 16-year-old nude aiko sunbathing on a beach on sylt (german paradise for naturists)? what about fairies; virtual imaginary characters? would a nude sylfie sleeping in a flower be ok?