Well guys and gals after seeing this site they way it is and then receiving the renderosity newsletter i lost my cool..

Below is a copy of an email i sent to the admin and believe me when i say this, i don't expect to get a reply from them nor do i expect anything to change on here or their newsletter..

Hi, i'm sorry to send you this email but something needs saying on this
subject.

First of all i have noticed that like most other sites Renderosity is
showing more interest in anything for poser. What i mean by this is you go
to the site and the first thing you see is a page full of poser items, you
get a newsletter and what is it full of poser items that are on the market
place or free.

Now i'm not sure about you lot that run the site but i know there are more
than just "poser" or "Daz studio" users on your site.
Please correct me if i am incorrect on this but i believe Renderosity is a
community of people interested in the 3d graphics, this would then point out
that they are not just poser users but use other programs for the 3d
graphics they like doing.

It would be nice seeing things for these other programs on the newsletter
and the page you see when one first go to the site.
If it is your intention to highlight the fact you have a large interest in
poser then may i suggest you change the site name from Renderosity.com to
Renderposer.com.

Thank you.

crazydawg..there is this unwritten rule in the ad world.. sex sells - always has and always will. looking from an advertising point of view and a mkting view and well..the business point.. for with only that money generated can renderosity survive... understand their point.
yes..even i get disgusted..but then i tell myself..why bother? they still give me my bryce forum and the stuff i want..  i have the choice of ignoring poser figures with just a click. let them do what they want as long as they give me my bryce forum and it's counterparts properly. i hardly go to the main pages..my home page opens directly onto the bryce forum... and i scroll thry the newsletter until i reach the word bryce.then i read.
i'm happy. i ignore the rest.and keep my peace.
cheers.
hugs... hate seeing another brycer unhappy

Hi CrazyDawg! I have Poser6...but it led me to Bryce! I like V3...but I want to do some Awesome Geo's and Cityscapes too! I think that instead of catagorizing things here (*like in the galleries, where people look in the poser galleries first), seperately, it should be first post first served! So that you are sort of  "Forced"  to look at all art....instead of by passing other's talents, but that is an extreme view I am sure. That all venues and programs get an equal section in the news letter, and finally that, like myself, if others see the great things other programs do, they would maybe be enticed to branch out! Of course I love visual stimulation of the mind, not the libido, so to me a great Sci-Fi pic, or Incredible Design hold the same enchantment as a beautiful figure! Before I had Poser...I did nothing but PSP designs, and Fractals. Now i have several programs that do more Landscape and architechure! But Your feelings were understood here....
Ariana

Strange you say that since this site used to be called PoserForum.com

(They had a community vote back in Oct 1999, and it was changed to Renderosity)

Yeah, like erosiaart states, what sells the most is going to get the most coverage. It's just the way of any advertiser.

Unfortunate but true.   :glare:

Quote - i suggest you change the site name from Renderosity.com to Renderposer.com.

Er, they already changed it - from Poserforum.com to Renderosity.com.

The reason there's so much Poser stuff here is because the place started out as the first and best Poser users' forum on the web. It was founded by Poser users, and built by Poser users for Poser users. Even when ownership was "transferred" from the founders to the people who hosted the domain, it remained a Poser site.

The new (current) owners have diversified to some extent and even changed the name, but the momentum of the Poser stuff is enormous. And that Poser momentum is what keeps the site afloat. Poser users buy stuff. Loads of stuff. They buy so much stuff that several companies are in business providing products, stores and brokering services.

Renderosity has always been one of those companies. That's what it does. It provides attractive online facilities to draw people to the store, and the store pays for the attractive online facilities (and makes a profit). Hardly anyone buys Bryce stuff here and I don't think anyone at all buys photography stuff here; it's the Poser buyers who keep the money rolling in to pay for the Bryce and photography forums and galleries.

So lap it up. You're getting a free ride. Write back to the admin and tell 'em you think it's a great idea having the Poser users pay for all the free services you're enjoying; and can they please think up ways to keep that happening for as long as possible.

Sneaky Agent, diving in when I have to answer the phone whilst replying.

Mod wages paid for by Poser users. Don't trust him. ;-)

 

I only receive checks through the sale of Bryce items....

...and if ya believe that...

Agree with you totally, 'Dawg except for one little detail:

"Please correct me if i am incorrect on this but i believe Renderosity is a
community of people interested in the 3d graphics, this would then point out
that they are not just poser users but use other programs for the 3d
graphics they like doing."

It's an art community, which also encompasses stuff like photography (snap, snap, grin, grin, wink, wink, say no more) and 2d traditional and digital art.

But yeah, it does seem a bit heavy on the Daz/Poser side of things.

Dawg, I agree with you totally. I hate Poser with a passion. It is the same crap over and over again. Naked Vickie with sword, Naked Vickie with gun. Naked Vickie looking inviting.  And where in gods name do they come up with the crap titles. Is there a section in the manual.

Poser is the worst case of painting by numbers I have ever seen. Import one V3, add somebody elses pose, outfit, props, background, and then claim to be the artist. Geez, anywhere else you would wind up in court.

ON the flip side there ARE people out there capable of doing amazing things with the program. A search of my favorite images will show the truth of that, but for every one that can put it to good use there a literally tens of thousands that can't. Our problem is they all post here.

You can't beat them Dawg, but know you are not alone.

NOTE: Crap has been used in place of a number of words not suitable for a family forum.

Hmm.. Ok, I'll play the devils advocate here for a bit..

Besides selling well, sex is also kinda the formula 1 of the internet business. The porn business helped bring about the streaming video and webcam services that we now often use for non-sexual content too. New developments that work towards combining mobile phones, text messages and umts, with computer websites are in the pipeline right now largely thanx to the selling propperties of sexual web content.

Not that i expect the php platform of 'rosity to evolve to become hi-tech thanx to poser content. Hell I don't expect 'rosity be all that hi-tech any time soon in general (I'd probably require a total rebuild to make it hi-tech and they're already undergoing a learning process with the current switchover to php). But in a sense the succes of poser and poser related items is doing similar things for the 3d business as online porn did for internet technology. Thanx to it's wide success and it's ever increasing userbase it does help bring more technologically advanced tools ever closer to the masses.

Hi I wanted to add something extra...I like poser and V3 for one thing...I want to manipulate the features! I like creating expressions, fear, loathing, and so on. Here is where I toot my own horn, I have only been at poser for about 4 months. But I feel that I am on the way to using the program to the best advantage. Part of the reason I have the Bryce, Carrara and Shade/Hexagon is that I want to totally create my OWN creations. So Poser can actually be a spring board to doing more than "Cut & Paste" with someone else's morphs. Sample pic>I did the face expression all on my own, the falling "pose" and it took several hours of tweaking and redoing to accomplish it on my own without presets. Why did I put this in here? Because there are Pluses to poser for all of the 3D artist programs..it can inspire to reach higher too. Ariana 

i do agree that they promote poser a little to much, and there's so much more they could be promoting, like all the software thats represented in the free stuff area should all have there time in the spotlight, although i do have poser6 i don't use it for the fact i could never get the hang of it so why would sombody like myself would want to see poser on the home page all the time,well mayby some day they will consult with the member that belong to this site about making changes after all it's us that keeps sites like this going,

I seem to remember RenderPoser is taken, but the average half-life of Poser sites approaches that of the higher Actinides..;)

I seem to also remember that Agent Smith does Zbrush (what of it?..;)  just another nit to pick..;)

There's a coupla things to rmemeber..

Poser, unlike Bryce, is a program that requires extra lights, poses, hands, mats, morphs, hair, clothes, characters, props (did I leave anything out?...;) so, as opposed to Bryce (you need skies, mats, and objects..pretty easy). So, to use Poser, you need a lot of extras. In short, we're just a little more self-sufficient..;)

And, as mentioned previously, this did start out as a Poser site..;) they're mostly harmless..;) I do think, though, that it wouldn't hurt to distribute some other packages' stuff as well.

Quote - Poser is the worst case of painting by numbers I have ever seen.

The same kind of thing other software snobs say about Bryce. Some 3D art sites won't allow use of the program supposedly because "it does everything for you" and the results stink. I expect they might be mildly amused that Bryce users feel they have a group to look down on.

Most of the stuff in the Bryce forum here is so-called "crap". Very few Bryce users are advanced 3D artists. The nature of the program (cheap, easy to get started with and lots of presets) invites an unskilled user base that is mostly just having fun. Poser "suffers" from a similar user base. Its majority use is more akin to virtual playing-with-dolls than creative art.

But so what? What's wrong with people having fun - especially when it pays for this forum?

 

       You have to take it with a grain of salt really. This is a poser site with nice additional features. Take a look at how many hits poser pics generate vs. others you willsee too that this is for the most part the land of NVIATWAS.

    Since this site is large you can pretty much ignore the poser stuff and get on and do other things talk about Bryce modeling whatever. On a smaller site you are left out of the loop with noone to talk to. Your pic that you spent 100 hours working on gets compleatly ignored for a 10 minute poser nudie.  ( I used to be a mod at one and gave up after doing a lot of work for the site and getting the short end of the stick)

   Bryce is also not taken seiously by the community.  Bryce has its shortcommings and I agree that there is a lot of lame stuff made in Bryce but power users of the program are able to make soem excellent pictures.  Since I liek to model I hang out at a couple other sites with mostly modeling and eventhough I am a lame git using wings I still can talk shop and have fun.

Cinema4D doesn't have so much need for add-in content. Most of the people using it tend to roll their own so to speak. Plug-ins are usually sold direct by the creator as well. That aside, we have a really good little forum over there (the hot20 even worked!) These forums and the galleries (there are a lot of good works out there and a lot that are evolving quite nicely) are what keep me here.
I guess what I really want to say is that I know Poser pays the bills and I accept that as part of the price to showcase my art and provide a set of forums to enjoy the process with others of similar bent.
Further thoughts, I hang at CGTalk a fair bit as well and that is a tightly run ship. Only thing is, here is home figuartively. Not because of the actual building (site/processes) but because of the people in it and how we all intereact.
Please don't leave.

Most of the stuff in the Bryce forum here is so-called "crap". Very few Bryce users are advanced 3D artists.

I agree that there is a lot of lame stuff made in Bryce but power users of the program are able to make soem excellent pictures.

How does one become an "advanced 3D artist", or a "power user"?  Be born with a gift and a silver spoon to get degrees and formal training? Bryce might be cheap but don't cheapen the user.  I'm having tbl finding the gallery of one of the repliers.

Sorry guys, my dander got up.  I apologize.

on the topic, I ignore what I'm not interested in.  I have links saved to the forum and gallery of my choice.  I don't do poetry, so why look at it and worry about the words.

No apology required. For me, I would prefer to say serious user (as opposed to advanced or power), once we get past the quality of vision thing, it all comes down to attention to detail. A serious user does IMO.
Many won't, but some will and will grow their skills to match their vision.

Then again, as long as you are having fun, that is cool too!

Skwillgee please don't mix quotes like that. I did not say one and did say the other . I don't want to be creditied with one of them. I agree with what i said and it can be said of a lot of the other packages here too. There is less than stellar stuff in every gallery even Maya and the high end apps have some underpowered users.

  To be a power user takes a desire to improve on what you have done before in each picture you do to continue to learn new techniques and to boldly go where you haven't gone before Or is that Star Trek. If you can look through a gallery and see a progression then they are on their way. I agree about the silver spoon thing. I wish I had the money and the time to go to gnomon workshop and have a copy of Z-Brush, Maya, 3DS all sitting on my hardrive but no such luck. I make do I also realise that if you practice and work at ti you will improve and you can make soem really good stuff in Bryce and some other inexpensive apps.

@Crimson moon: The fact you are putting in the effort to create YOUR OWN poses is excellent. You in 4 months have managed to take a step most poser users don't. As I stated before there are people out there able to do amazing things with the program. My gripe is that most don't but still want the same praise given to them as people building their own props, poses, outfits and the likes.

Do us all a favour and continue to learn. Hopefully you will inspire others.

skiwillgee, you completely missed my point, I'm afraid.

I was using what other people say about Bryce and Bryce users to illustrate why I think these attacks on Poser and Poser users are misguided and wrong. I said "so-called 'crap'", and put "crap" in quote marks. Normally that's enough for a reader to spot that the writer doesn't agree with the use of a word.

Just to be clear - I'm happy to see Bryce and Poser users of all skill levels publish their work, here and elsewhere. I am not an art snob or a software snob. I stand against those - even though it gets me banned from time to time. ;-)

 

Again apologies to Dann-o and PJF, I must have taken it wrongly, and it was late(eastern daylite time) long past my bedtime 

Dann-0, your organics in wings3d is top-notch a sign of practice makes perfect not a degree fm art college.  That is my point.  Wings3d is free software and I doubt you learned to use it at Berkley.

PJF, you're right I re-read your post and I was off base with the intent.

Quote - How does one become an "advanced 3D artist", or a "power user"?  Be born with a gift and a silver spoon to get degrees and formal training? Bryce might be cheap but don't cheapen the user.  I'm having tbl finding the gallery of one of the repliers.

Well, usually I do things on an "I try and it just works straight at the 1st try 90% of the time" basis, and I do think it takes a bit of silver spooning to become the best of the best. But most of the time it's just practice, practice and more practice. And trying to understand why settings produce the results they produce. For me to come where I am now took me about 7 years of practice producing a lot of "crap" imagery while getting there. Though I think the "i try and it just works" thing does imply a certain amount of "silver spoonage". Then again, I'm still not near the best of the best so I get to practice a lot more! :biggrin:

All the so called "crap art" does make the better ones among us look even better

depends on the site..if you ever feel bad about your level of expertice, go to Deviant art (in all fairness, they have all sorts of levels, but there's a lot more beginners there..;) to Art Zone (where everyone's an expert..almost no newbies..;) Please yourself, there's no harsher critic out there..

The reason such programs like Bryce and Poser are on the market is precisely because they offer the 3D artist a simple way of creating complicated visions. All good 3D artists can create their own landscapes and people populated scenes but at a cost of time. These programs offer a quick and painless solution to this dilemma. Poser has always been known to afford the 3D artist a “quick” solution to their “population” problem. And consequently, although its original creator did not intend it, Bryce became the quick answer to the instant landscape problem (for artists needing quick landscapes).

How long would it take a 3D artist to come up with different landscapes or people personalities if that artist had to create the prop from scratch and it wasn’t the central theme of their art…days, weeks, months? That’s why these programs prospered. Tarregen, Bryce, Vue, Mojoworld and the countless others that have since surfaced. But so far Poser has been the only human figure generator that has come to the forefront to answer that particular need.

There have been and still are many sites that offer extensive additional’s including props and tutorials and of much better quality than Renderosity can afford their Poser world clientele. You just have to seek them out.

Poser, all by itself can only offer you figures. They can be positioned and to the glee of some talented and resourceful artists they can be properly and extensively clothed and textured. It takes a lot of time to concentrate on a figure when you want certain wrinkles and pores to show in the final rendition. Not to mention that you have painstakingly taken the time to clothed them in fine lace, leather and silk and make it show as “real” and often that is not the intent of the artist. The artist may have a “greater” vision than simply concentrating on the figure.

Think of it, a program that offers nothing but human figures and a simple way of dressing them (as someone mentions above…a virtual doll), how long would such a program last on its own? Absolutely no way! So, they incorporated ways of extending this product to encompass other programs that would allow this program more far reaching use and what other way than incorporate a mass figure making program with a mass landscape making program allowing their figures to hover over some final destiny? And there you have the alliance, a need to perpetuate your product. And it has been done through smart marketing. I don’t have to tell you what other outside programs benefit from this aggregation of the resources.

Therefore it took Renderosity to put all of these necessary programs together under one roof to afford the Poser people a way of extending their program onto others. Thereafter, all other programs became fare ground for Poser. There’s more but we shall not go there for Renderosity does not really view most of their subscribers as artists to begin with. They simply offer you the platform…a gallery of your own that can be viewed by all. They stroke your ego as an artist and profit from there.

This is not to say that there are many fine artists who reside here. But this site has put their homework together except where it counts and that is in properly designing the site.

I will cut this short from its presently lacking site design but belief me when I say that they are only interested in their bottom line and not what you as a member feel.

First let me thank Cyba-Storm for the kind words and encouragement.
Next...Gee I am new and all to 3D, but I am a published photographer and also have quite a bit of skill in Acrylic painting, and Pen and Ink. I have and DO sell my work! I am just a newbie to 3D and Forums. I may sound stupid in some of my questions about 3D, but my 2D art speaks for itself. I own my own business and have for 20 some years now. OK, here goes... Listen to yourselves! OMGDDSS!!!! Unless you are another Frank Frazetta or Michael Whelan...or Angelo, get of your high horses! LOL! It does not matter if you are a "Beginner", "Expert" or "In Between"!!!  What matters is giving some additional Beauty to the World in general! If you are good enough> SELLING IT! If not just having Personal Enjoyment at the craft! Art is based on the concept and execution of the medium....someone might make a fantastic model, but they can be barren of ideas to utilize their construct! Acting all full of ones self and elitist is just plain ridiculous! It matters not WHAT medium you employ! If you enjoy it first and foremost...then it is worthwhile. If SOMEONE ELSE enjoys it, then you get a satisfaction of THEM reccognizing your talent! **But to sit back and denegrate someone who use this or that to make an object of art is well...silly! So someone uses Poser....or Bryce or whatever....How many of you can draw or paint unaided?I can and I like 3D for one reason...LOW COST of SUPPLIES! (paints, brushes, canvas', speed & compact work space. *LOL! Boy that is funny!!!) If the medium affords the ability to create...it is in and of itself worthwhile. Who is to say what is crap or not? Are you paid to be an art critic (*the most useless "Job" ever conceived!)? Most artists thru history starved and did without to create their work, only to be castigated until they were dead...then become famous! LOL! Lots of good that did to feed ones self! I am sorry this is a rant of my own...but you should reread the stuff you have put here...less whining and more making art! It will speak for itself if it is crap. BTW...if you had a child learning, would you call their efforts "Crap"? Many great artist started thier careers late in life...they don't just fall out of the sky! They also had a learning curve...
Get real and off the high horse of superiority! What was your first attempts looking like?
Sorry for the interruption, you can go back to your back bitting now.
disgusted with this thread...
Ariana **

Ariana, if I weren't so damn gay I'd marry you in a heartbeat for that sentiment alone!

LOL! Honey You be as gay as you want and will dance the night away in Simpatico, just to spite the masses! LOL!!! :)
Ariana

I'm the one that started this thread. All it was ment to do was point out the fact you see more poser stuff in the newsletter and on that homepage than you did before. I wasn't intending on it starting a flame war between you artists.

Man i'm sorry i even thought of starting this thread. S.T.L.I.O.O.H :cursing:

Hi Crazy Dawg! Actually your sentiment is well founded! It (*Ren) should give equal and clear credit/attention to ALL forms of art used here. Thats why I originally commented, you had a valid comment! I took up all the other programs I purchased after I got Poser, cause it doesn't do everything I want! And I would like to see more on Bryce, Carrara and other programs spotlighted....so I can learn to get better at them all! But I certainly don't think one is so much better than the others(*or those that use them!)...just different! Your point was well taken. I was pissy cause the thread got what I thought was "Ugly" against a lot of generalities. I got a big mouth. You on the other hand had an excellant point!
ThanX!!!
Ariana 

I am pleased to say i received a reply for my email from a staff member here on R'sity. Short but they have taken notice of my suggestions. I'm a happy little puppy once again.

By the way all i don't have anyting against poser or the products you can get for it at all, infact i can say i have quite a few items that are for poser/daz studio which i enjoy using even if i don't post images any more i'm still doing things in daz studio..one day i'll jump back into using bryce but for now i'm learning DS.

PS, my sig was taken from the email and i find it really suits this site to a tee 

They should just spotlight something from the list of programs/subjects they have forums for each week. Keep a constant rotation going. Not really that hard to do (just go to the next down the list), and it would end any perceptions of bias. Of course the mods/coordinators would be a bit busier, as they'd have to make preparations for when their forum's week comes up.

hint, hint.....lol.

Great idea, though.

With all due respect…I totally understand and agree to a point but must refer back to what the subject matter of this thread was:

 

 

“First of all i have noticed that like most other sites Renderosity is
showing more interest in anything for poser. What i mean by this is you go
to the site and the first thing you see is a page full of poser items, you
get a newsletter and what is it full of poser items that are on the market
place or free.

Now i'm not sure about you lot that run the site but i know there are more
than just "poser" or "Daz studio" users on your site.
Please correct me if i am incorrect on this but i believe Renderosity is a
community of people interested in the 3d graphics, this would then point out
that they are not just poser users but use other programs for the 3d
graphics they like doing.”

 

 

I too have had some accomplishments in the 3D art world myself, first as a free lancer in advertising for New York news papers and magazines then as art director for a now defunct multi-million dollar enhanced CD music corporation, working right in hand and meeting with many famous music artists of our time and have personally met in our studios.

 

Despite your obvious talent, it must be recognized that Poser is one program and that Bryce is another. And it became obvious to Poser to “align” itself with other programs to which it can export itself as object files.

 

The opening thread is not concerned so much with the spread of beauty and art in as much as to why Renderosity seems to cater mostly to Poser when it is obvious that Poser in and of itself can only generally elemental, basic figures to a full work of art without using other programs to “back” itself up with

 

Poser would be dead without the other software programs.