regarding olivier's shaders, I recall he was selling toon shaders, but I haven't seen any examples in the gallery here lately, excepting maybe one where a guy posted a sneaky rabbit animation. are there alotta good renders using his toon shaders at rdna (other than promotional ones), or are they tricky to use, causing folks to fall back on firefly or even the dreaded Poser toon renderer? regarding your pencil shader, I want to encourage you in developing it. however, IMVHO it needs alotta postwork to make it look like a human artist's pencil sketch. the same goes for whatever olivier is working on - best of luck in getting something that will work well.