i'm putting everything into making a model. i dont worry with lights or anything else. i'll do that when i get a bit better at modeling.  i enjoy the poser site but never for a minute will i assume i van learn much about modeling there. i did however find out how to do a basic texture there and the people for the main are extremely helpfull in poser and texture related stuff. i have some lynda tutorial cd and found them to be the best tuts for getting to know the basics. i scour the 3d wip forums and see some of the techniques others use.. i don't copy them but i do sometimes get ideas from them. sorry if some  think that a cheat. the first 3 attempts were discarded as the turds you speak of and so will this one if i think it turd like lol at present i'm work from pics of two different people. one a side elevation and one a front elevation. once i had the side and body of the thing done i just use the front pic. at present all the planes are hidden and i'm working off a pic on another screen.

at present i doubt what ive done is good enough for any constructive feedback other than don't give up your day job lmao. as can be seen by the wip image pasted, i would love some feedback or comments. i have a thick skin so people can be honest if they have a mind to.

billy