i had read your post, copy and pasted Pete's place URL in a new browser window, and bookmarked it, then i posted my query (before i looked at Petes mind you) hehehehe and it is an excellent site, thanks for putting it up, i plan on spending many hours there. Thanks for your advice on the models to. I wouldnt want to place any pic here with others models and have people think they are mine, but i have so many, i have forgotten where most came from, so i cant give credit. thank you for your quick reply, it is very appreciated :-)